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I'm not a hawk and I'm not a dove. But doesn't it occur to you that the only places we go to war is where the oil is? We went Granada we only stayed 30 minutes. No sense fighting over a bunch of rocks. We have entered a forever war now. It started when Abraham didn't believe Sarah could conceive. That was the beginning of the Arabs and Jews. With so many factions how can we win? I know "W" took a lot of flack because his daddy didn't finish the war. But methinks this struggle will go on until the end of time. Our part will go on until another election. |
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7/20/2005 11:28 am |
Yes, I agree that our role in the Iraqi war will not be ended until after the next election. So I guess in essence George W Bush will keep the Bush legacy alive and well...ie...he will have started something that he did not finish. Maybe that failure is a manifestation of a genetic deficiency. I also agree that this is all about oil. This had absolutely nothing to do with the reasons that we were told. Bush would have had a tough time selling the war in Iraq if it hadn't been for 911. The sad thing is that 911 had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq. In the final analysis the American people should be blamed for this...they were being too darn lazy to become informed and involved.
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7/20/2005 1:48 pm |
Right,Don!-"Those who fail to remember the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them!" How many times have we heard that? Yet we haven't taken charge! Do we have to physically go up to the White House and wrest control from these goons in order to insure that realistic democracy replaces militarism for its own sake? I dunno.Anyway,none of us can do it alone.We are either going to have to take charge,or suffer the consequences.
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7/20/2005 2:57 pm |
Cheryl, Granada was a rescue mission. We went in to rescue a group of American med students who were being held hostage. We didn't depose a dictator. There was no requirement to help establish a new govt, provide security, rebuild infrastructure. But the operation took a lot longer than "30 minutes". Here's a synopsis from Onwar.com: "At dawn, on October 25, 1983, US Marines, Army Rangers, Navy SEal commandos and elements of the 82nd Airborne Division invaded Grenada, a member of the British Commonwealth. The announced mission of the American suprise attack, in which troops from a number of Caribbean nations took part, was to ensure the safety of some 1,000 Americans, whose presence on Grenada (most were medical students) was considered endangered by the new marxist military government that had seized power from and murdered Prime Minister Maurice Bishop (1944-83) six days earlier. The Organization of Eastern Caribbean States and Grenada's Governor-General Sir Paul Scoon (1935-) had requested US help to combat the growing influence of Cuba and other communist countries on the island. The small Grenadian army, assisted by Cuban soldiers and workers who were constructing a large airport at Point Salines, put up fierce resistance for several days, but were eventually overwhelmed by the invasion force, which had grown from about 1,200 to over 7,000. Numerous rebles[sic] fled to the interior jungles and kept fighting; within a month the leaders of the military government were arrested, and Cubans, Russians, North Koreans, Libyans, East Germans, Bulgarians and suspected Grenadian communists had been rounded up and put in a detention camp. By mid-December 1983, all US combat forces had left Grenada, and Scoon had appointed a nine-member advisory council to govern until elections could be held."
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7/20/2005 5:23 pm |
Quote popartist46: "Right,Don!-"Those who fail to remember the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them!" How many times have we heard that? Yet we haven't taken charge! Do we have to physically go up to the White House and wrest control from these goons in order to insure that realistic democracy replaces militarism for its own sake? I dunno.Anyway,none of us can do it alone.We are either going to have to take charge,or suffer the consequences". My reply: I agree that the totality of the changes may seem daunting to each of us individually. However I look back to examples like Ghandi, Martin Luther King and others. Change can come when the light of reason is brought to shine upon the inequities of the few. We can bring about change by bringing to others the awareness of the lies that we have been told, the political games that have been perpetuated, and the costs that these have brought upon us all. Furthermore: While Granada may have been a rescue mission, the fact that has been lost during this whole matter is that George W. Bush was questioned about "nation building" during his campaign. He stood before the American people, on national television and said that he would not engage the Americans in "nation building"...all of this talk about replacing a dictator, providing security, establish a new government, and rebuilding an infrastructure is ...you got it...Nation Building
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7/21/2005 1:49 am |
War is always about resources and oil is a major resource of Iraq.. Over 50 years ago General/President Eisenhower warned of the danger of the military and industrial complex in th U.S.A., each being dependant upon the other... All 50 States have business, industries to build tools, parts, or replacement parts or contract for services to support our Military...and of course an active military requires more stuff, which creates more business...
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7/21/2005 2:09 pm |
How many states have companies that you or your family members work at the use oil and/or its by products that have nothing to do with the military? How many own cars? I dont think its just the military that depends on oil. I would say our country would come almost to a halt, business wise and personally without oil. So it seems alittle silly to blame our dependence on the military alone.
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7/21/2005 5:10 pm |
Is oil the reason we went into Iraq? Well, then why are we still so dependent upon it? What President...I repeat WHAT President...Republican OR Democrat has done anything to create a viable alternative energy industry and infrastructure? What Senate...Democrat or Republican controlled has done anything substantive to create a viable alternative energy industry and infrastructure? What House? Why is it that we could put a man on the moon in 1969, when NASA computers had less power than today's PC's, yet we can't seem to find a way to operate an automobile or heat our homes without oil? Why have we NEVER had a NASA-like organization to focus the nation's resources on developing viable sources of, and applications for alternative energy? Could it be that politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle are filling their campaign war chests (and pockets) with MONEY from BIG OIL? THAT's the Big problem folks. It's not just "W". It's ALL pols. They're ALL taking money from oil lobbyists or catering to constituents/donors who are in bed with Big Oil. Want real reform? Then get a real grass roots referendum campaign to REALLY reform campaign finance. Take the BIG money out, and we have a chance at getting an honest govt. Let it continue as is, and it will continue to be virtually irrelevant who's President, or what party controls Congress when it comes to oil. Too many from both parties take the money. And too damn many of them make a career out of being a politician. We need to clean house...on BOTH sides of the aisle. And it's not just Big Oil that's the problem. Big Money is just as bad. Those willing and able to produce Big Money for pols get what they want regardless of how you, me or 100 million others think, feel or vote. Get the Money out, and honesty, integrity and a real notion of "public service" will find a way to come in.
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7/22/2005 5:44 am |
It will go on until manufacturers start producing cheap electric cars and other energy saving devices. We all win then!
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7/22/2005 11:29 am |
PP2, unless we consumers refuse to buy cars and other products that keep us dependant upon oil, companies will not vigariously persue making energy saving products, alternative energy products or electric cars. And while many want to solely blame the government, we all play a role in keeping the status quo. It isnt likely the general population will endure being temporarily inconvenienced by giving up their known way of life, nor be willing to put their money where their mouth is, to ensure changes are made to reduce our dependance.
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7/25/2005 11:56 am |
thank you all for the input.
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12/21/2005 9:39 pm |
You are a very wise woman, Cheryl, I am a Canadian and I feel the same way as you do. moon2u
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